The American Society of Naval Engineers invites listeners to tune in to Episode 49 of Talk a Little, Learn a Lot, ASNE’s podcast hosted by Dr. Stephen Phillips. In this episode, Christopher Carroll joins Dr. Phillips to discuss his article, “America’s Fourth Coast Could Help Close the Shipbuilding Gap with China,” and the broader challenge of restoring America’s maritime industrial capacity.
The conversation builds on Carroll’s research into the decline of the U.S. merchant shipbuilding industry and the strategic consequences of that decline. His capstone paper, “How the United States Can Reindustrialize Its Merchant Shipbuilding Industry,” argues that the United States once possessed the world’s most advanced shipbuilding industry, producing roughly 9,000 vessels by the end of World War II and remaining a dominant commercial shipbuilding power through the 1970s. That position changed dramatically after the termination of the construction-differential subsidy program in 1981, which Carroll identifies as a major turning point in the collapse of the domestic commercial shipbuilding market.
Today, the imbalance is stark. Carroll notes that the United States builds fewer than 10 oceangoing commercial vessels per year, while China produces more than 1,000. U.S.-built merchant ships now represent only about 1% of global commercial tonnage, while China builds approximately 75% of the world’s commercial fleet. For naval engineers, maritime professionals, policymakers, and national security leaders, those numbers raise urgent questions about industrial resilience, sealift capacity, supply chains, and America’s ability to build and repair the ships it may need in a crisis.
A central theme of the episode is Carroll’s argument that the problem is not simply funding. His research identifies three major roots of the current challenge: unstable demand for U.S.-built vessels, procurement and design failures that push shipyards into construction before designs are mature, and workforce shortages caused by low demand, wage competition, and the long training timelines required for skilled maritime trades.
The episode also highlights Carroll’s focus on the Great Lakes region as a potential “Fourth Coast” for American shipbuilding. His paper argues that the Great Lakes offer a strong foundation for maritime reindustrialization because of the region’s manufacturing heritage, steel supply chains, lower costs of living compared with many coastal shipbuilding hubs, and existing industrial workforce. At the same time, Carroll recognizes the region’s practical limitations: the St. Lawrence Seaway’s beam, draft, air draft, and seasonal constraints mean that Great Lakes shipbuilding strategies must focus on feasible vessel classes such as frigates, Littoral Combat Ships, medium landing ships, tugs, icebreakers, and certain auxiliary vessels.
The podcast also offers a timely entry point into a larger national conversation. Rebuilding American shipbuilding capacity will require sustained attention from government, industry, academia, and the maritime workforce. It will also require practical regional strategies that match industrial ambition with geographic and technical realities. Carroll’s “Fourth Coast” concept offers one such path for discussion.
Listen to Episode 49 of Talk a Little, Learn a Lot on the ASNE website, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and other podcast platforms. To learn more about ASNE’s publications, events, and opportunities to get involved, visit navalengineers.org.
Photo caption: Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Daryl Caudle and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy John Perryman observe a ship being built on Bath Iron Works Shipyard in Bath, Maine, April 9, 2026. The visit to BIW underscores the shipyard's critical role as a full-service facility specializing in the design, construction, and life-cycle support of the complex surface combatants essential to maintaining U.S. naval superiority. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class John Bellino)